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| geschrieben von Gast am 24.02.2003 - 10:28 | ||||
| this thread is based on a question asked by jamie. http://www.javarea.de/forum/showthr....#post27826
;) well I' just notice again the differences of our keyboards ;) I'm at college at the moment. I'm living in UK for a year now, but i'm going back to germany in juli. What do the european people think about america? er.... I personally don't have any problems with 'other' people at all. I like to go somewhere else to meet new people, cultures and learn things. thats why i do thins exchange at the moment. in the future i'd like to got to america one day. It's a big country and there are many things i'd like to see and places i'd like to visit. Some people think bad about mr. bush and his politics, but everybody can say things... I mean i don't think, they always know what they are talking about. especially now in that time, where everybody is talking about war with iraq. Many people just argue without knowing the background, the real reasons and i think thats not right and fair. ;)  My cousin is in florida this year - like me as an exchange. And as far as i know she really enjoys being there. The main thing is: there are many different people here in europe and in america as well. Therefore you have many different opinions about things. So you just can't judge about people without knowing them and having experience about there country, history, religion, culture. Does this answer your question? And.... if you ever have any questions... just ask. I personally like writing with you ;)  bye, timmi ps: sorry, if i repeated myself ;) |
| geschrieben von Martin am 24.02.2003 - 16:53 |
| Ave, I think this question isn't easy to handle. Basicly I agree with Timmi that most of the people on earth didn't know enougth about the 'other'. The most off us - meens all people on earth - decide without knowing and prejustice them without understanding. This unknowing about there country, religion, history and culture influence by fear about the 'other', had allways come to an bad end in past. In the case, you're talking about the generalizm in movies, there also exist a distorted image of the american people in germany too. In summary, there been shown a proud, nationalism type of "Rambo", who is the world most importent policeman. No fear, inviolable, everytimes cool and have allways a good joke on lips. Sometimes a little bit crazy, too. ;)That's the sort of american I get shown from the hollywood movies. But, I know that this image isn't true at all. The american people 're quite normal as all other. At least, I think the americans quite the best friend that you're can select and whatever any politican, jornalist say, the friendship that exist between america and europe are bigger and stronger then saying in these times. I really hope so. That's part of my opinion to the general relationship between america and europe. mfg martin |
| geschrieben von Schwefel am 25.02.2003 - 00:07 |
| what amercian's believe about america: we invited the automobile, we created the internet, we made moon-travel possible, we saved the indians, :-) (sorry, no jokes about genocide!) ... ... ... america seems to me a very stange country, the people believe what they see in there tv (there window to the world). That disturbs me (at the US Foreign policy, not the US people): since WW2 no secret service or military operation of the USA was completed succesfully! (Kuba, Vietnam, Korea, Afganistan,etc...) In the opposite: the USA made the Taliban strong, supporting them with weapons and terror (!) trainings, also the USA supported Saddam with Weapons before '88! But foreign policy as expression of egoism (oil - al important Bush-advisor's had worked for oil company's) will not work!!! By ignoring the Kyoto-protcol many more people will die then by the collapsing towers! sincerly thomas ps sorry 'bout strange english - i am trunken :-)   |
| geschrieben von Jamie am 25.02.2003 - 11:16 | ||||
I see that you two are going more for the "American politics" type of approch to thinking... Which is fine. I guess I never really think about European politics...I don't know why. America has a "super power" attitude, you're right about that. You know, I feel like we are too. I feel very secure here, I feel that our army is extremely strong...It would take a country with a lot of ba**s to actually attack America and not expect to have their country blown off the face of the earth. I know that our government is at some times shady, but I believe those techniques and strong attitudes have made America the super power it is today. Believe me, even Americans have a hard time understanding what to make of the "war on Iraq" situation. Most American's hate war, and are totally against it... They feel however, that this is the last resort. We are in fear for our saftey. We have countries threatining to nuke our cities everyday and President Bush is not going to wait around for something to actually happen. You have to remember that we had a horrible incident with the world trade towers that haunts the U.S. everyday. In a post 9-11 America, we take threats seriously. America just doesn't go around bombing countries becasue we "hate" them. If America is going to bomb someone, it is for a justified reason. Perhaps to stop people who do kill and spread terror for no reason. I don't know anything about supporting Saddom, or terrroists...... so I can't comment... Speaking for American people everywhere... We are normal. Politics is something to discuss here, not a way of life. Believe me, we have HUGE scars from September 11th, and all of us wanted to see osama bin ladden dead. We were just so perplexed, why did this happen??? America is like every where else. Just becasue our government says something, or does something, does NOT mean that is how the general American public feels. America is a big "melting pot" with people from every where around the world in every city down to the smallest...we are tollorent of all different races, nationalities, and creeds. People are people no matter where you go.... It's just sad that innocent people had to die because of some suicide rejects from a mental state which I can not understand. We just didn't understand why it happened.... And to see the images of people in afganistan cheering and happy, and to see interviews from around the world saying that "America deserved it" just pissed us all off soooo much. Again, our government does not speak for the people. However, we do appreciate out government, because they keep us safe...they keep our spirits up. They give us something to talk about at work. |
| geschrieben von Jamie am 25.02.2003 - 11:17 | ||||
Ok... I didn't think that we invented the automobile, but I am truly not sure where it was first invented. Internet.... uh... Didn't Al Gore invent the internet? (joke) We did make moon travel possible, because we went to the moon. (joke) Um, I never thought that we "made it possible" just that we were the "first" "we saved the indians" are you speaking of indians from india? Or native Americans. About the " what they see on t.v." ummmm.... I guess. But not really. I think we are bright enough to know that not every European isn't a rude cocky bastard with pink hair doing drugs. Or a french woman with arm pit hair smoking a cigarette while her husband steps on grapes. It's actually a shame, we don't really learn about Europe in school, well...Paris, italy.... places like that.... But just like you may not know much about America, it's the same with us and our thoughts of Europe. Oh yeah, another generalization of Europe "bad drivers" Oh...and "bad teeth".... See how dumb generilzations can be????? |
| geschrieben von Schwefel am 25.02.2003 - 12:45 | ||||
this is what I meen, with "your window to the world"! americas enemy no.1 The Father of G.W.B. supported the Iraq because the dictator (Saddam) don't likes the islam. They (usa) encourage Saddam to attack Iran, to eliminate there islamism leaders. Saddam spent a lot of money in this war, and amercia paid this money by buying oil... It is also a stupid joke that al qaida has anything to with saddam. americas enemy no.2 the taliban (afganistan) were trained in secret operations and terrorism by the usa, to reduce the production of drugs in this country. For that reason the usa and taliban killed a lot of people, surely more than 3.000! The reduce a inner amercan problem (drugs), they (and the taliban) blown away a goverment of a country. usa is a propaganda nation! as you may remember in GolfWar I, there were story's that the iraq killing baby and throwing incubators out of the windows. This story forced the congress to allowing the war. But this story was a fake from a public realtions agency, payed by the goverment! americas oil reserves will last for 12 years only, that is the real reason for all that... sincerly thomas |
| geschrieben von Jamie am 25.02.2003 - 13:06 |
| Ummm....not trying to be rude... but, to say this is all about oil is retarded. We need oil so we buy it. We don't "fund" Saddam in his stupid hate crimes. Oh and saddam had a death hit out on bush, I doubt he "helped" him and supported the taliban for no reason, or reason being that we just didn't "like" a certain country. I am not claiming America is always "innocent" but every country does stupid shady things every day. I say The united states is doing pretty well, mistakes and contradictions haven't seemed to slow us yet. |
| geschrieben von Martin am 25.02.2003 - 13:21 |
| Ave, mmmh, I didn't really know how far this story is true or is not true, which schwefel is telling, but I heard them as well. Beside one thing I didn't understand, it's public that Osama bin Laden and Saadam Hussein are not any kind of friends at all, they more like fanaticle enemy. But in the american public press, there's allways a telling about a friendship between them. Know the american government more than they said? @jamie: You said that the european are "bad drivers". That 100% true, european people are the badest driver on earth, asspecialy germany. ;) I'm one of them.mfg martin |
| geschrieben von Jamie am 25.02.2003 - 13:24 | ||||
I agree. You know what is weird? Both my great grand parents on my Mom's side are from Germany... Plus, my great grand parents on my dad's side are both from italy... Yet, I don't know crap about Germany, or Italy. When I think about Italy, I think about ..umm..."pretty" "old" "no legal drinking age" When I think about Germany, I am sorry but the first thing that comes to my head it "hitler(and you guys think that George Bush is bad?)" "holocaust" "meat" That is the extent of what we learned about Germany besides where it is located and stuff like that. But, I didn't tend to pay attention in Social studies, there are people who know ALOT more about your country than me... Don't think that I am the general American. I am just more interested in the beauty and culture of a country, not the politics or governments or anything like that..... Ok, back to watching "south park" Do you get to see south park there???? |
| geschrieben von Schwefel am 25.02.2003 - 17:02 |
| Hitler, the most famous german came form austria! Maybe our knowledge about the mechanism that made "Nazi-Deutschland" possible, make the european people sceptically and kritic against propaganda. the german people believed that they are being attacked by other country's (poland) and start defending there fatherland. They believed that, because radio and newspapers spread that propaganda. In fact, most amercian soldiers believe that jews must be a different kind of men - so good the german propaganda worked! you may wan't to read this german | english (google) thomas |
| geschrieben von Martin am 25.02.2003 - 18:37 |
| Ave Jamie, we get a lot of american soaps, like "south park", "the simpson", "sex and the city", "stargate SG1", "Ally Mc Beal", "Friends", also some older stuff like "prince of bel'air", "enterprise".... , blah blah blah..... I think the same weird stuff as you shown every day, but in a different language. ;) Basicly, I think you're a nice mixture of the europeans. (No, I don't want grab on you. ) In my opinion there comes the will and penetration strength of germans and the temper of italy together. Really nice mix. ( prejudice ;) *lol* )Ok, something to schwefel comment. It's right that Hilter came from aurtria but that didn't excuse the fact that the german people followed him and many believe it what Hitler said. In fact also, propaganda didn't work without permission of the people themselfe. If they want to believe, they do. Next. Most of them where in the beginning (I think 1928) very scepticle against the ideas of hilter and his NSDAP. The breakpoint were, that hilter told them, he's able to create new workplaces. That they work for war and military weapons, nobody want to believe it. Nobody ask why, nobody questionary. Pefect startup ... for war. Later, around 1933, Hilter is canzler of germany, nobody ask why the judes are "bad people", nobody ask why the other people on earth are 'underpeople'. The rest is history. I didn't want to forget this and also the whole world shouldn't forget what the germans have done. Beside, sometimes I ask myself, why I'm told a 'nazi' 60 years later? For what? I'm 22 years old. I didn't born in this time. But let me ask you a question. What do you know/learn in school about "peal harbor" and the atombombs over hiroshima and nagasaki? Ok, it's time to get a break. mfg martin |
| geschrieben von Jamie am 26.02.2003 - 08:30 | ||||
Wow, we learn ALOT about pearl harbor and the following bombs. Sorry, but I am not a history/war buff, so I may be a little incorrect, but basicly...I know what I am talking about. Ok... Pearl harbor.... "Escalating Japanese aggression created friction with the United States, the only major nation not yet involved in war. In 1937 U.S. president Franklin Roosevelt called for a “quarantine” against the “disease” of international aggression. The United States sympathized with the Chinese nationalists and wished to keep the resources of Southeast Asia available for the embattled British. Japan was heavily dependent on the United States for vital strategic material, such as petroleum, steel, and heavy machinery, so the Roosevelt administration gradually imposed embargoes on such goods. Negotiations aimed at settling differences between the two countries began in April 1941, but when the Japanese moved troops into southern Indochina in July, the United States responded by placing a complete embargo on oil. Britain, countries belonging to the Commonwealth of Nations (an association of states that gave allegiance to the British Crown), and the Dutch East Indies followed suit. The U.S. oil embargo threatened to bring the whole Japanese military apparatus to a halt when its limited oil reserves were used up. Rather than face the humiliation of giving in to U.S. economic pressure, in early September the Konoe cabinet decided to continue negotiations while at the same time preparing for war. All attempts to reach a diplomatic accommodation with the United States failed, including a proposal for a summit meeting between President Roosevelt and Prime Minister Konoe. In October Konoe resigned, and General Tôjô Hideki, Japan’s minister of war, became prime minister. Tôjô formed a cabinet in preparation for war. December 7, 1941, Japanese submarines and carrier-based planes attacked the U.S. Pacific fleet at Pearl Harbor. Nearby military airfields were also attacked by the Japanese planes. Eight American battleships and 13 other naval vessels were sunk or badly damaged, almost 200 American aircraft were destroyed, and approximately 3,000 naval and military personnel were killed or wounded. The attack marked the entrance of Japan into World War II on the side of Germany and Italy, and the entrance of the United States on the Allied side." Japanese leaders were aware of America’s immense economic and technological strength, but they gambled that the American public and politicians would not have the stomach to fight to the finish. Japanese war plans envisaged a limited war that would lead the United States to a negotiated peace that recognized Japan’s dominant position and territorial gains in East Asia. The plans assumed that Japan would be able to hold a strategic defensive perimeter of island bases stretching through the central and South Pacific against American counterattack, and that Nazi Germany would complete its military conquest of Europe. These sobering realities would then force the United States to the negotiating table. In actuality, the United States decided to wage an all-out “total war” that would end only with Japan’s “unconditional surrender.” ___________________________________________________________________ That is taken from this article http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/refpa....&pn=11 Thats about all |
| geschrieben von Oliver Pradetto am 03.03.2003 - 22:17 |
| O.k. what do we think of america (to invente an new point view (or not))? First i think, that my english knowledge is al little bit rosted. I hope you understand enough of my statement. You are talking to germans in this forum. Germany was nearly one hundred years shaken by wars and split in many micrornations. Many of them not bigger than "Queens". Germans tried in 1848 to start a democracy by revolution. It failed. They tried also to unite the german country to one nation. It failed too. The German Nation was later united by a man called Bismarck. Bismarck was a sort of superminister of the germans king. His tool to unite the nation was war and money.Nonetheless: Germany was for the first time a united country and the people were proud on their nation. This united nation started the second world war, killed a lot of men and lost the war. After that the germans got forced to build a democracy. In this democracy people where unhappy about a bad treatment by the nations who had won the war and the german people were out of work. 33% of the germans vote Hitler (not knowing what that vote would leed us to)and for the second time "a strong men" united the nation and made the germans proud for a short time. After that this bastard killed millions of people in a war and worse. Democracy was always weak in the german history, but democracy itself proofed on the other hand, that it was a good thing for human rights. But beeing proud on the nation leads to killing of innocent people in the most terrible way you can imagine. Did my grandmother know, that the germans killed the jews? This is the german soul in a few words. We are ashamed about our history. So if a german hears of war he gets very bad feelings. If we think about "proud of a nation" we are going to be suspiciuos at once. America is the motherland of democracy. It`s strange comes out of a long fight for human rights, of freedom and of democracy. These are the values americans think about by beeing proud of their country. And really: America can be proud of it. Example: If you hear the national hymn in a movie americans stand up. If you would do this in germany every one would think you are crazy. If a german in a movie stands up, when he hear the german national hymn he would be thrown out as a "Nazi". I think it`s important to know that, because this is a very important difference between us. This is a reason for many misundertstandings. Germans get suspiciuos by americas proud and most of them don`t understand that you are not proud about the power of the usa (o.k. perhaps a little bit ). You are proud about the power of your democracy. Right? America didn`t destroyed germany after the second world war and after all the terrible things germany did. Instead America helped germany building a democracy. Amercia proteced our freedom during the cold war. We never will forget that! But: Power is dangerous for those who hold it. Americas democracy had taken over by very bad people and your people seems to haven´t even noticed it. Beware of those who want`s your country to fight in a war! Today -following the actions and believings of your goverment- americas great democratic attidute, its values and its respect for human rights and the power of justice seems to have not any longer validity outside the USA. I´m very sad about that. Nonetheless i wish you luck and peace! Yours Oliver |
| geschrieben von Patricia am 04.03.2003 - 01:00 |
| Dear Jamie Nice to meet You - Youre Welcome - I didnt read all the Postings cause I am very tired. Your question was what do You think about america? I personally like Amerika and its people. It has nothing to do with the government - cause government dond represents the people. Many of Europeans emigrated the past years. They want to get away from europe cause earlier the things weren´t good . All americans have their roots here in Europe - except others which are from southamerica. I know a lot of american citizens and many of them I call friends. I live here in the near of Ramstein Airbase and I got a lot of friend... mostly GIs who are married to german girls and GIs that have been here with her wifes from the staates. I have been 1986 in the age of 16 to San Antonio TX. I was invited by the grandma of my friend David. I really really enjoyed it there. Julie and Bruce have been here for 15 Years. He was Drill seargent at Ramstein Airbeas and first he had just 4 years to be here. The love to be here and stayed at least 15 Years and it had very big tears and heartache if they left... I have many many Webfriends overseas and all this people and me - we are so kind. You cannot mess people by history or government... this is a failure. Tell me more about You where do You actually live in the Staates? and I know stupid question how old are You?There are many things both citizens of both countrys can learn and profite from. There are so many things that come from USA that I prefer. and I know that my friends overther prefer much things here. Sometimes packages are going from one country to the other.. In 1993 I had the mother in law from my friend Bill here to stay for a visit. She comes from Pensylvania. She was such an exciting woman... It was a pleasure for me to travel her through our region - she lovet it so mich - she took lots of pictures ( about 300 Films ) tool stones from old caves, sand, leaves all that.. Got a lot of things to buy. She had much to take back ))France ist very close to me too - 20 Minutes I am there... I took her for a Trail and told her that we go to France today. She coulnd believe it and was so pleased... As we travelled the borders she said - pleas Patty stop - Please take a pictue from me with one leg in germany and one in france... She was so excited about all the old castles and stuff we have here.. I loved to see her eyey go brighter... ))I wish You all the best and I hope that all will be good - for us and at all for our children.. I got Two! And I want to have peace for them.... Big Hug Patty |